Comments on: Daily Telegraph publication of MPs’ expenses http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/ A guide to the Freedom of Information Act & other access laws Fri, 12 Mar 2010 12:01:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: albert oram http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-49632 albert oram Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:44:23 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-49632 every police authority should investigate the mps in their area using the green book guide and prosecute any mp who breaks any rule. no governmentcan pass a rule that breaks thev criminal law every police authority should investigate the mps in their area using the green book guide and prosecute any mp who breaks any rule.
no governmentcan pass a rule that breaks thev criminal law

]]> By: Brian Baker http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-48632 Brian Baker Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:15:52 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-48632 Hooray for people like you who have finally exposed the M.Ps for the freeloading bunch that they are. As ex Serviceman the thing that sticks in my craw is that guys in Iraq have a ration allowance of £2.90 a day and this bunch of S.O.Bs claim £30.00 a day. Sheer greed don't you think?Accomadation is available in the form of unoccupied married quarters scattered around the outskirts of London (there is a possibility that the serving soldiers might object to the quality of the neighbours FORCED on them though). Now we learn from the Met that the M.Ps probably can't be prosecuted for the theft of public funds. When did immunity from prosecution for the priviledged few creep in?Sack them all AND bar them from ever standing for public office again.Thieves and fraudsters the lot of them. B Baker Hooray for people like you who have finally exposed the M.Ps for the freeloading bunch that they are. As ex Serviceman the thing that sticks in my craw is that guys in Iraq have a ration allowance of £2.90 a day and this bunch of S.O.Bs claim £30.00 a day. Sheer greed don’t you think?Accomadation is available in the form of unoccupied married quarters scattered around the outskirts of London (there is a possibility that the serving soldiers might object to the quality of the neighbours FORCED on them though). Now we learn from the Met that the M.Ps probably can’t be prosecuted for the theft of public funds. When did immunity from prosecution for the priviledged few creep in?Sack them all AND bar them from ever standing for public office again.Thieves and fraudsters the lot of them.
B Baker

]]> By: Ian W http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-47401 Ian W Sun, 24 May 2009 20:50:27 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-47401 Thank you - you deserve great credit for your dogged work, and also to The Telegraph for publishing details that would otherwise have never made it out without black felt pen through incriminating key details. I just wonder how long it takes before some of the examples published to date make their way into becoming criminal fraud cases. I also wonder whether Gordon Brown has paid back the £6500 or so he allegedly paid his brother for cleaning services; that seems to have gone off the radar again recently. Thank you – you deserve great credit for your dogged work, and also to The Telegraph for publishing details that would otherwise have never made it out without black felt pen through incriminating key details. I just wonder how long it takes before some of the examples published to date make their way into becoming criminal fraud cases. I also wonder whether Gordon Brown has paid back the £6500 or so he allegedly paid his brother for cleaning services; that seems to have gone off the radar again recently.

]]> By: Colin Ross http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-47015 Colin Ross Wed, 20 May 2009 15:06:18 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-47015 Thank you for finnally exposing the M.Ps, however dont stop there let the people know how much of taxpayers money is being used to subsidise the bars and the restaurants in both houses. Thank you for finnally exposing the M.Ps, however dont stop there let the people know how much of taxpayers money is being used to subsidise the bars and the restaurants in both houses.

]]> By: john shale http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46906 john shale Tue, 19 May 2009 13:39:47 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46906 Why have expenses? Why have Parliamentary Privilege? Why have exemption from various tax laws for MP's? A total Freedom of Information access, such as the Americans have, is contrary to the nature of British Government but has been proven, by the expenses scandal, to be overdue and to be essential to a true Democracy. The nature of the expenses scandal demonstrates that MP's can not be trusted to exercise self-control. Replace expenses by purpose built accomodation, typing pool services and railcard travel. MP's have a very generous salary, which should compensate for and cover the cost of any other aspects of their role. Why have expenses? Why have Parliamentary Privilege? Why have exemption from various tax laws for MP’s?
A total Freedom of Information access, such as the Americans have, is contrary to the nature of British Government but has been proven, by the expenses scandal, to be overdue and to be essential to a true Democracy.
The nature of the expenses scandal demonstrates that MP’s can not be trusted to exercise self-control.
Replace expenses by purpose built accomodation, typing pool services and railcard travel.
MP’s have a very generous salary, which should compensate for and cover the cost of any other aspects of their role.

]]> By: Tim Reynolds http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46653 Tim Reynolds Sat, 16 May 2009 12:36:25 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46653 Excellent work Heather - you deserve an honour for exposing this! But I'm not placing the house on you getting one! Nevermind a new plan though - what is wrong with the Scottish expenses system which seems open/ transparent at least from the outside? Also I do hope that this furore doesn't lead to further (successful) requests for public funding of political parties in the UK - in place of individual MP staff expenses - that won't help. Excellent work Heather – you deserve an honour for exposing this! But I’m not placing the house on you getting one!

Nevermind a new plan though – what is wrong with the Scottish expenses system which seems open/ transparent at least from the outside? Also I do hope that this furore doesn’t lead to further (successful) requests for public funding of political parties in the UK – in place of individual MP staff expenses – that won’t help.

]]> By: Jill Smith. http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46624 Jill Smith. Sat, 16 May 2009 09:50:05 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46624 The MPs have hidden behind a flawed system and advice given to them by Officials in the Fees Office. Perhaps the Telegraph could focus attention on these faceless people who, obviously, are paid a salary to scrutinise claims and offer advice to MPs. I don't feel they have done a very good job, given the level of questionable claims and payments. They could have sounded alarm bells long ago to their political masters. If they did and were ignored, who ignored them? Another point worth pursuing, given that you have highlighted a claim by Tam Dyal, what about Tony Blair's expenses when he was in the House of Commons? Whilst many people wish the Telegraph would 'put a lid on it' it seems to me that you have a long way to go. The MPs have hidden behind a flawed system and advice given to them by Officials in the Fees Office.
Perhaps the Telegraph could focus attention on these faceless people who, obviously, are paid a salary
to scrutinise claims and offer advice to MPs. I don’t feel they have done a very good job, given the
level of questionable claims and payments. They could have sounded alarm bells long ago to their
political masters. If they did and were ignored, who ignored them? Another point worth pursuing,
given that you have highlighted a claim by Tam Dyal, what about Tony Blair’s expenses when he was
in the House of Commons? Whilst many people wish the Telegraph would ‘put a lid on it’ it seems
to me that you have a long way to go.

]]> By: Joanna Jay http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46386 Joanna Jay Thu, 14 May 2009 16:02:42 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46386 To judge by his overstated sympathy for what he claims are Britain's overworked, underpaid and misunderstood Parliamentarians, "Steve" supports every suspicion that he probably knows a great deal more than most about personal agendas. No doubt there really are some MPs who work hard - though I doubt many (whether Labour, Tory or LibDem) whose self-serving attention to detail is matched by efforts on behalf of their voters - many of whom, even if lucky enough to still hold a job, are forced to regard £24,000 a year as a whole family's one-and-only "living" wage in their one-and-only home...!!! And, for all their crocodile tears right now, I still can't get over the way the vast majority of MPs in the HoC - (not to mention those "other" rogues in that "Other Place"...!) - have relentlessly opposed the public's Right to Know at each and every turn...! To judge by his overstated sympathy for what he claims are Britain’s overworked, underpaid and misunderstood Parliamentarians, “Steve” supports every suspicion that he probably knows a great deal more than most about personal agendas. No doubt there really are some MPs who work hard – though I doubt many (whether Labour, Tory or LibDem) whose self-serving attention to detail is matched by efforts on behalf of their voters – many of whom, even if lucky enough to still hold a job, are forced to regard £24,000 a year as a whole family’s one-and-only “living” wage in their one-and-only home…!!! And, for all their crocodile tears right now, I still can’t get over the way the vast majority of MPs in the HoC – (not to mention those “other” rogues in that “Other Place”…!) – have relentlessly opposed the public’s Right to Know at each and every turn…!

]]> By: steve http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46311 steve Wed, 13 May 2009 20:32:47 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46311 I wondered at all these furores about the MPs expenses as published by the Telegraph-a paper that has its own ulterior motive and agenda. I also wondered if any of you knew the system is the same all over the world. Being an MP is a very tough job hence not most people can be or has the gut to become an MP. Could any of those criticising the MPs or the Telegraph journalists honestly say they have the guts to become one? Im sure many of the MPs appearrd humbled by the revelation with some offering to pay back some past claims, simply to assuage the feelings of the people and for not wanting to provoke more controversies by defending their position. For instance British MPS are perhaps the lowest paid MPs in Europe. They simply followed the rules laid down as regards claiming expenses and even though some took the advantage to the extreme no one is saying they have broken any rule – perhaps why David Cameron said that it’s not much a legal issue than a moral issue. MPs are only elected to serve a term of 4 years after which they might become jobless. Many have no jobs to go back to except some Tory MPs and perhaps a few Labour ones. The Telegraph started with the Labour MPs and followed with the Conservatives except that that two of the first names they chose are Duncan and Gove, the two openly gay front benchers, plus others mostly to the left of the party or pro-Labour. The motive here speaks for itself. I wondered at all these furores about the MPs expenses as published by the Telegraph-a paper that has its own ulterior motive and agenda. I also wondered if any of you knew the system is the same all over the world. Being an MP is a very tough job hence not most people can be or has the gut to become an MP. Could any of those criticising the MPs or the Telegraph journalists honestly say they have the guts to become one?
Im sure many of the MPs appearrd humbled by the revelation with some offering to pay back some past claims, simply to assuage the feelings of the people and for not wanting to provoke more controversies by defending their position.
For instance British MPS are perhaps the lowest paid MPs in Europe.
They simply followed the rules laid down as regards claiming expenses and even though some took the advantage to the extreme no one is saying they have broken any rule – perhaps why David Cameron said that it’s not much a legal issue than a moral issue.
MPs are only elected to serve a term of 4 years after which they might become jobless. Many have no jobs to go back to except some Tory MPs and perhaps a few Labour ones.
The Telegraph started with the Labour MPs and followed with the Conservatives except that that two of the first names they chose are Duncan and Gove, the two openly gay front benchers, plus others mostly to the left of the party or pro-Labour. The motive here speaks for itself.

]]> By: Andrew Watson http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46262 Andrew Watson Wed, 13 May 2009 08:14:39 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46262 Heather, A quick note of thanks and congratulations for all your hard work on keeping our politicians accountable. If nothing else, all this has been a helpful reminder to them that they work for us. Andrew Heather,

A quick note of thanks and congratulations for all your hard work on keeping our politicians accountable. If nothing else, all this has been a helpful reminder to them that they work for us.

Andrew

]]> By: P.J.Bonnel http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46177 P.J.Bonnel Tue, 12 May 2009 11:09:02 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46177 What an excellent job you have done on behalf of the public by publishing details of how the public purse is raided by these people. As they are always so fond of reminding us, if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.Why then trying to exempt themselves from the Right of information act? This in itself,and in the light of what has been revealed,is an attempt to avoid any penalty for wrong doing. How long are we going to hear those guys banging on on the "Culture of Dependency" regarding people on any kind of benefits? Who is going to protect us from them? It is time those dis-honourable this and that had their DNA taken and stored. After all lots of people who have committed no crime are on it. Yours sincerely What an excellent job you have done on behalf of the public by publishing details of how the public purse is raided by these people.
As they are always so fond of reminding us, if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.Why then trying to exempt themselves from the Right of information act?
This in itself,and in the light of what has been revealed,is an attempt to avoid any penalty for wrong doing.
How long are we going to hear those guys banging on on the “Culture of Dependency” regarding people on any kind of benefits?
Who is going to protect us from them?
It is time those dis-honourable this and that had their DNA taken and stored. After all lots of people who have committed no crime are on it.

Yours sincerely

]]> By: G Adlam http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46170 G Adlam Tue, 12 May 2009 10:08:18 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46170 Dear Heather, Just a line to say a heartfelt thank you for all your hard work in bringing this sordid business to light. We all are in your debt for the public service you have performed. You deserve public recognition for such. Dear Heather,

Just a line to say a heartfelt thank you for all your hard work in bringing this sordid business to light. We all are in your debt for the public service you have performed. You deserve public recognition for such.

]]> By: Nick http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46161 Nick Tue, 12 May 2009 09:22:34 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46161 @David Lawrence: such a table could be compiled already. The total sums claimed under this allowance are already published on Parliament's website. See here: http://www.parliament.uk/about_commons/hocallowances/hocallowances06.cfm and column 1 in the table here: http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/HoCallowances0708.pdf @David Lawrence: such a table could be compiled already. The total sums claimed under this allowance are already published on Parliament’s website. See here: http://www.parliament.uk/about_commons/hocallowances/hocallowances06.cfm

and column 1 in the table here: http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/HoCallowances0708.pdf

]]> By: BUSTOP http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46154 BUSTOP Tue, 12 May 2009 08:14:21 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46154 Heather Thank you for your hard work - you deserve great credit. I agree with Paul Ingram above, I too have come across Capita, who are closely intwined with the Labour Party and Gordon Brown. I understand that much of the resentment from MPs (Nick Robinson made the point this morning) is based around their fear that the gravy will dry up, leaving them with Financial committments they cannot meet. Someone needs to make it clear to them that this is their problem and of their own making. By their own definition a second home is needed to fulfill their duty as MPs. It follows that when they are no longer MPs they no longer need a second home, and so, are no longer entitled to claim expenses for it. Therefore they should approach the aquisition of a second home on the basis that they may, every four or five years, lose £24,000 worth of contributions. If their motives for a second home are simply to enable them to do their job (i.e. be in two places at once) they will have no problem because they will no longer need the second home and they can sell it therby having no further costs. They should then repay, to the extent possible, all money received from the taxpayer including any profit from the sale, and from the sale of contents too. Put another way allowances for a second home might be seen as a loan to be repayed when they are no longer MPs. In this way their investment in property actually becomes an earner for the public and is preferable to money being thrown at hotel chains. At the same time they have a solid base for family life both at Westminster and in their constituency. We all win, except they do not gain financially at the end of the day. I see no reason why this approach could not be brought in retrospectively because MPs would not lose out on anything they were entitled to. Even the green book will not say that they have a right profit from allowances. Thus Jacqui Smith, when she loses her seat in Redditch in May, would have to sell her second home i.e. the one in Redditch, repay all money got from the tax-payer, obviously retaining any equity and associated profit that accrued from her own investment, and move her family into her first home in London. If this left her feeling a bit short of space she could have the option of selling her first home to fund the 'buy out' of the public's stake in her Redditch home and live there with all of us happy ever after. I cannot see a defence against this? Heather

Thank you for your hard work – you deserve great credit.

I agree with Paul Ingram above, I too have come across Capita, who are closely intwined with the Labour Party and Gordon Brown.

I understand that much of the resentment from MPs (Nick Robinson made the point this morning) is based around their fear that the gravy will dry up, leaving them with Financial committments they cannot meet. Someone needs to make it clear to them that this is their problem and of their own making. By their own definition a second home is needed to fulfill their duty as MPs. It follows that when they are no longer MPs they no longer need a second home, and so, are no longer entitled to claim expenses for it. Therefore they should approach the aquisition of a second home on the basis that they may, every four or five years, lose £24,000 worth of contributions. If their motives for a second home are simply to enable them to do their job (i.e. be in two places at once) they will have no problem because they will no longer need the second home and they can sell it therby having no further costs. They should then repay, to the extent possible, all money received from the taxpayer including any profit from the sale, and from the sale of contents too. Put another way allowances for a second home might be seen as a loan to be repayed when they are no longer MPs. In this way their investment in property actually becomes an earner for the public and is preferable to money being thrown at hotel chains. At the same time they have a solid base for family life both at Westminster and in their constituency. We all win, except they do not gain financially at the end of the day. I see no reason why this approach could not be brought in retrospectively because MPs would not lose out on anything they were entitled to. Even the green book will not say that they have a right profit from allowances.

Thus Jacqui Smith, when she loses her seat in Redditch in May, would have to sell her second home i.e. the one in Redditch, repay all money got from the tax-payer, obviously retaining any equity and associated profit that accrued from her own investment, and move her family into her first home in London. If this left her feeling a bit short of space she could have the option of selling her first home to fund the ‘buy out’ of the public’s stake in her Redditch home and live there with all of us happy ever after.

I cannot see a defence against this?

]]> By: Joanna Jay http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46087 Joanna Jay Mon, 11 May 2009 21:20:24 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46087 Surely, throughout the debate so far, there has yet to be shown one good reason why it seems almost accepted without question, by so many people - even those clearly shocked by their recent excesses - that in order to do their job it is imperative that MPs "own" a second property...??? Oh, sure - an MP whose constituency is outside the M25 needs somewhere to lay his or her head in the Capital, of course, but, to my mind, it doesn't follow that they need to enter the property market to do so...! The HOC should enter the property market instead and purchase several apartment blocks within easy commuting distance of Westminster, in order to provide (adequately...!) furnished one-bedroomed accommodation to any MP who needs it. After all, Universities and Colleges have done much the same for students and staff for years...! Surely, throughout the debate so far, there has yet to be shown one good reason why it seems almost accepted without question, by so many people – even those clearly shocked by their recent excesses – that in order to do their job it is imperative that MPs “own” a second property…??? Oh, sure – an MP whose constituency is outside the M25 needs somewhere to lay his or her head in the Capital, of course, but, to my mind, it doesn’t follow that they need to enter the property market to do so…! The HOC should enter the property market instead and purchase several apartment blocks within easy commuting distance of Westminster, in order to provide (adequately…!) furnished one-bedroomed accommodation to any MP who needs it. After all, Universities and Colleges have done much the same for students and staff for years…!

]]> By: Joanna Jay http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46084 Joanna Jay Mon, 11 May 2009 20:52:22 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46084 While watching you and the others on the CH4 News tonight (Monday, 11/5/09) I was almost as amused as I was horrified by Jon Snow's sudden airing of that oft repeated lament, viz: that to reduce an MP's income is feared by those who believe it risks attracting Parliamentarians of poorer quality...! Quite how highly such people are inclined to rate elected Parliamentarians like Michael Martin, John Prescott or Hazel Blears I therefore shudder to imagine...!! While watching you and the others on the CH4 News tonight (Monday, 11/5/09) I was almost as amused as I was horrified by Jon Snow’s sudden airing of that oft repeated lament, viz: that to reduce an MP’s income is feared by those who believe it risks attracting Parliamentarians of poorer quality…! Quite how highly such people are inclined to rate elected Parliamentarians like Michael Martin, John Prescott or Hazel Blears I therefore shudder to imagine…!!

]]> By: Amanda Jelley http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46073 Amanda Jelley Mon, 11 May 2009 20:37:54 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46073 We are all absolutely appalled at the behaviour of the very people that we vote into the government with regard to their expenses. One simple answer to all of this..... make them all pay back all their expenses to the public purse as a gesture that they agree they have acted inappropriately. Amanda Jelley We are all absolutely appalled at the behaviour of the very people that we vote into the government with regard to their expenses. One simple answer to all of this….. make them all pay back all their expenses to the public purse as a gesture that they agree they have acted inappropriately.
Amanda Jelley

]]> By: Paul Ingram http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46066 Paul Ingram Mon, 11 May 2009 19:50:52 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46066 Capita, ran into them in detail, in the Education system, 'insider' company, bad news. Bell's (failed) effort has been another attempt to hide information - but I don't expect they will stop trying. Capita, ran into them in detail, in the Education system, ‘insider’ company, bad news. Bell’s (failed) effort has been another attempt to hide information – but I don’t expect they will stop trying.

]]> By: LP http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46061 LP Mon, 11 May 2009 18:41:28 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46061 Agree with Nick- an 'independent' audit party will get the Boot just like Filkin did- MP's like to scrutinise us- but they don't like the tables turning on them. I want the money paid back into the Treasury, otherwise they have profitted by their mis-interpretation of the Green Book Agree with Nick- an ‘independent’ audit party will get the Boot just like Filkin did- MP’s like to scrutinise us- but they don’t like the tables turning on them. I want the money paid back into the Treasury, otherwise they have profitted by their mis-interpretation of the Green Book

]]> By: Nick http://www.yrtk.org/2009/daily-telegraph-publication-of-mps-expenses/comment-page-1/#comment-46056 Nick Mon, 11 May 2009 16:57:52 +0000 http://www.yrtk.org/?p=722#comment-46056 Hiving off the auditing to an outside party simply wouldn't work from an FOI perspective: the information is still held on behalf of the public authority, so can be requested. Hiving off the auditing to an outside party simply wouldn’t work from an FOI perspective: the information is still held on behalf of the public authority, so can be requested.

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